It should be able to charge the projector when powered off, but might struggle during operation. Because the PPM needs 4A@15V, with only 3A there might not be enough power. But in eco mode should be OK and probably also on normal mode.
Thanks @Philips_Support_P for your explanations, but I still doesn’t understand something…
When you say “Because the PPM needs 4A@15V, with only 3A there might not be enough power.”, I understand “PPM needs 60W (4x15) to be full powered” and it’s clear that 45W (3x15) is a little bit short.
But the Flash powerbank has the capability to deliver also 60W (20V/3A) and even 100W (20V/5A) !
Therefore why PPM would not be able to use the full power of these 60W or 100W ?
Is there currently a limitation at 15V ?
If yes, as said by @wernerj previously in this thread, will it be possible to tweak PD firmware of the PPM in order to accept over 15V ?
Yep it looks like so.
I’ve asked this to the HW team, still waiting for reply as engineers are not all back to Shenzhen. Will update asap.
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Yes, thank you to look into this with HW (and maybe SW) teams, because the current specifications (15V/4A) seems to be really uncommon, at least for powerbank.
To be as compliant as possible with what is on the market, a PD firmware upgrade would be great !
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It is an uncommon mode, but not completely unheard of. From a cabling perspective it would be a lot better to run at 20V/3A as most power banks and adapters max out at 3A (also any non e-marked cable will also limit current to 3A, or at least they should).
We’ll see when the HW engineers are back, I’m also very interested in finding out how this will unfold (I’m still waiting for the second EU wave of deliveries so I can’t take a look for myself just yet)
Managed to reach the HW engineer and I have a definitive answer now.
PicoPix Max only accepts 15V.
Due to thermal and efficiency concerns at this size, some parts inside have a max limit of 15V. 20V parts could not be used.
PD optionally allows 15V @ 4A instead of 3A, if local optimisation is of value. Our engineer believes PPM is the perfect candidate for ‘local optimisation’ as 15V4A has better thermal+efficiency characteristics than 20V3A.
The supplied power adapter supports this optional 4A output at 15V so it can run the projector at full brightness and even charge a bit. But it seems the majority of 3rd party PD adapters only support the minimum requirement, which is 3A. That’s why these adapters will charge the PicoPix when off, but will probably struggle during usage in Presentation mode.
If you can find a PD charger that does output 4 amp, that’ll be a better fit. But otherwise 15V at 3A will charge the projector when off, and should power the projector fine at eco and likely also normal mode.
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Thanks for the honest response, even if the content doesn’t really enjoy me…
@mayobren said in another thread that he managed to charge PPM with 2 of his powebanks.
For the most common of them (the Zendure SuperTank), it would be useful to know, for each or the 3 projection modes, if :
- The powerbank powers the PPM during projection AND charge the PPM battery.
- The powerbank only powers the PPM during projection AND can’t manage to charge the PPM battery.
- The powerbank can’t even manage to power the PPM during projection AND can’t manage to charge the PPM battery.
@trappm explained that he found a battery monitor in Aptoide store :
I think this soft could give the status.
Maybe @mayobren can do these tests for us 
?
That makes some sense. I guess the battery charger IC is one of the 16 or 18V types then. Slightly cheaper than the 22V versions. Not sure about the efficiencies when we’re talking a device of this size, but efficiency in terms of cost is of course one important factor.
But there are apparently still incompatibilities where the PPM refuses to negotiate a 15V/3A contract with the Apple chargers for instance, so not all 15V/3A capable adapters seems to work.
I think it should be the other way around:
- Can both power and charge
- Can only charge
- Can neither power nor charge
I will check this in more detail with the team.
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Ok, so using the zendure.
No difference whatever mode used.
Red charge light comes on, lightning icon appears next to battery icon.
The zendure will power the ppm whilst running
The zendure will recharge ppm whilst off.
The % charge indicator on the zendure reduces by
1% per min in presentation mode = 100 min runtime approx
1% per 1.5 min in normal mode = 150 min runtime approx.
1% per 2 min in eco mode = 200 min runtime approx
Measuring power draw in each mode usb-c
43 watts in presentation mode
34 watts in normal mode
27 watts in eco mode
Powerdraw on mains
55 watts in presentation mode
45 watts Normal Mode
35 watts eco mode
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That sounds reasonable, I assume usb-c means the zendure and mains means the philips adapter? As the adapter can provide up to 4A @ 15V instead of the regular 3A.
no unfortunately I couldn’t measure power draw from the zendure, I used an All powers 100000 mA power bank with a built in meter for both the mains and usb-c measurement. I don’t know how accurate the meter is but it should be consistently right or wrong using both types of power
Ah OK! Mains sounds a bit on the low side if taking conversion efficiency of the AC/DC adapter into consideration, but it might be close enough.
Was this test performed with the PPM battery fully charged? Otherwise there really shouldn’t be any difference in power consumption in the different modes.
The current limit isn’t super precise in the charger chips either. Theoretically it should be 45W and 60W respectively if voltage is 15V and the current is either 3 or 4A.
there will…is a difference in draw in different modes, there are differing electrical loads
I cant find any power bank so far that can do 15v 4a. Only thing I’ve found out so far is that the surface pro is also 15v 4amp apparently (not sure which version)
That Supertank looked like the one, but that’s maxed at 15v 3a too.
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did you not read above? The zundure supertank can produce 100w, up to 20v at 4A
But the PPM only accepts 15v. Or am I missing/misread something?
On the Supertank specs, it maxes out at 15v 3a.
Yes, but if the battery isn’t completely charged the charger should use the remaining power as established in the PD power contract to actually charge the battery, that’s why I was curious about the state of charge of the battery.
Yep, most 100W supplies are only specified to provide more than 3A at the highest voltage (20V). Also, an e-marked cable has to be used to in order for a compliant device to negotiate a PD contract at >3A.
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definitely missing something, it powers the ppm, see above