To summarize your post: The masses are dumb and it is good that they are kept dumb by marketing speech. Congratulations to Philips: Brain washing at its best!
Sorry, but then I hope that not many people belong to those dumb masses. Otherwise I hope that those masses are not eligible to elect.
Yes you get 1080p on the screen, but if you were a professional or a home theater enthusiast you would know that there are differences picture quality wise between a projector with a native resolution and a projector with such kind of wobble mechanism:The difference is that the pixels on a wobble projector are crosstalking and therefore you are not reaching the sharpness of a projector with a real native resolution. This is why for example the JVC X-serie never got an official 4k certificate.
Therefore the only answer to Philips advertising this projector as „native 1080p“: (Sorry) Bullshit and misleading!
@mule, no the masses are not dumb, please don’t call people dumb.
Native resolution in that sense has been used for decades, even before projectors were popular and there were only lcd monitors :).
If you were a professional or home theatre enthusiast you would most probably due to your geekiness, like I was (because I do own several projectors) know in advance what is it all about. you would understand that there is no way they can pull out a full size LCD chip into that housing with that cooling and claim there is enough battery inside for 3 hours of operation. Right? Or did you expect a miracle for a small price?
So from you as apparent enthusiast and a geek I expect to know more and to understand other people and their understanding of things.
And the masses are not dumb, I never said that, that are your words, masses simplify things, masses are happy calling native 1080p when they see unique pixels on the screen/wall, masses don’t care about wobbling. Masses get worried when you geeks say it is not native 1080p because you care about pixel shifting.
If it wobbles too much masses will return the projector and say we want a refund because it “wobbles” they will not ask for a refund because they got installed TI 230ND bla chipset with pixel shift mechanism. So Philips and TI will make sure it the “wobbling” is not noticeable and picture is nice if they do not want to have a lot of refund.
Got it?
and when Philips makes a special edition for geeks Im sure they will put in premium components and do a premium price on it for the geeks of us, and they will for sure label it in a language that we appreciate. No pixel shift for the geeks, only expensive stuff.
If you feed it 50p video it will be 200Hz instead of the 240Hz for 60p. I’m more curious what happens with a 24p source that has to be doubled to 48p for the DLP controller to be able to display it (only 50 or 60p +/-Hz allowed).
Nope… Its 60hz for all sources - it’s a fixed frame rate for the dlp chip. 240hz /4 movements. Irrespective of the input frame rate. Which is another issue - which would explain the stuttering seen by some. If the input is not divisible by 60hz then you could get missed frames. Not usually an issue but a possibility.
With a led flickering at 50hz, you could easily get a stroboscopic effect.
Not necessarily from a DLPC/DMD perspective, and the V56 chip I have seen deal with 50/60Hz at a minimum, otherwise all “PAL” 720p50 European broadcast would have jittered like crazy on those cheap LCD TVs. I have no idea how the V56 chip has been configured in the PPM though.
The internal sources may very well be forced to 60Hz at least initially - but that’s something that really should be sorted (the SoC could then easily supply 48p frame-doubled 24p for movie content).
Speaking of LED lighting flickering at mains frequency - I hope all those LEDs go extinct real soon, that’s some really sub-par engineering (especially those with half-wave rectification). I can’t believe something like that passed any kind of QC. The ones with PWM in the single-digit kHz range are bad enough.
Ah! I recalled now one of your earlier comment you added in indiegogo comments section regarding the review of one of your projectors. Reminded myself shouldn’t take you too seriously. Native or not native
never did a review of any of my projector, i just mentioned (on here) that I have 5 projectors. so you remember the wrong guy sorry
I may have a sarcastic or funny tone in my messages, that is true. Does not devalue what I write In this thread specifically. I appreciate that here we have a few very knowledgeable people, experts in the field, but experts are usually also something germans call “fachidioten” (Fachidiot - Wiktionary) and are ignorant of the rest of the world. The problem is they are always in minority and they want to teach the world about the truth. But the world, or the rest of us, live simple lives and do not care about the details. Who is right? In their expert world they are right but in our global world we are right, otherwise it gets messy. Is the rest of the world dumb or stupid as someone called it? No, it just has a different perception of things and simply does not care about the details or even wants to know. The problems are experts who force their truth not understanding that by forcing the “truth” they make a mess. Be an expert, but make an effort to recognise the facts around you.
For all of the experts here is a link to the site, conveniently called projectors.co.uk, boasting to have the largest selection of projectors on offer. On the left you have the search criteria, please kindly tick the box for a Native FullHD projectors. Then please start writing emails and explain them their wrongdoing, or stop being ignorant of the world. Thank you.
Leds by nature flicker as to be on constantly massively increases heat, so most led bulbs are very simple - even the expensive ones can have audible switching frequencies.
So watching 50hz video on a 240hz /60hz projector with 50hz lighting could result in issues. There’s no sync so you could get rolling, sparkles, fuzziesness - all sorts. Plus you have the Leds in the projector being driven at an unknown rate.
Most of this is moot as it’ll probably be OK, but the main reason is choice. If you tell us the correct specs we can choose if it’s for us. Tell us it something it’s not and you get threads like this.
Hi, do you aware of virtual 7.1 surround sound. I think this also how exactly why @Sefton_Bates and I sharing the same thought of the term “native”. Don’t get me wrong, the projector is displaying 1080p on the projector screen (or wall)! However, like what “virtual” mean as marketing term for audio product, the “native” shall also justify it meaning.
I am not a native English speaker, but maybe you could explain to what is the difference between using term “native” vs not. This is not as clear as when you comparing it to “guilty” and “not guilty” I believe.
There is also a effect that “native” has attracted some people (maybe at least “5%” for professionals) attention and decided to back the project up. I believe that people (at least maybe me) are having higher expectation to the term of “native”.
Are you saying that if I have a super high FPS camera which working in 240 FPS I can see the pixel is shifting from 1 point to another? In comparison with actual 1080p pixel working @ 60hz, with 240fps, out of 4 frame I will see 1 frame with full image; but a 1080p pixel shifting, i will be able to see 2 frames out of 4 frame with half image in those 2 frames. Is this what you mean?
Actually it does devalue what you say. You may think that you are ‘funny or sarcastic’ but you come off as snide and unwilling to compromise to the views of others.
Instead of refuting technical reasons that have been clearly outlined, you try to attack the character of those you disagree to undermine their arguement (otherwise know as ad hominem). What other reason did you have to introduce ‘fachidioten’? Do you seriously think I’m somehow ignorant of the rest of the world becuase I gave technical information in a forum entitled “Technical Topics”?
I am very much aware of the world around me. This very “native resolution” versus “pixel shift” debate has occurred on numerous forums (albeit with 4K projectors instead of 1080p, but the technology is exactly the same), and those debates are still ongoing. I totally understand why Philips marketing people want to call it “native 1080p”, but just because others are also making the same mistake does not mean that Philips should not be called out on it.
I still maintain that the term ‘native 1080p’ is an incorrectly used with the PicoPixMax. Maybe this term is also used incorrectly on projectors.co.uk, but they are sales site not projector manufacturers (their motivation is to sell projectors not be a technical resource), and this forum is about the PicoPicMax and not projectors in general.
P.S. Projector Central is a much better independant resource for projector information. The simply list the “resolution” of the projector, instead of getting into the ‘native’ debate. They also have specs for the Pico Pix Max (Philips PicoPix Max DLP Projector Specs). While the Philips spec sheet on that site mentions it is a “fully wireless native Full HD projector”, the Tech Specs at the bottom just list “resolution” not “native resolution”.
