Forum feedback civil discussion thread

This forum contains a ton of moderators that instantly gets offended if you have feelings that are not positive. I feel for you Mario and I also think you kept a very balanced way of expressing your view.

The way I handle the emperors of this forum is by not engaging or posting. I also will never buy any products from Philips or Screeneo again, I strongly recommend friends to avoid it as well because of the way disappointment of products or delivery is handled. It is just a culture towards customers I do not agree with. However, they havr the right to act whatever way they want, it is their business.

Stay safe

6 Likes

:prince:t4:
Most moderators are backers just like you Johan, and most of them don’t even have their projectors yet.

We have no issue with criticism of the campaign, the product, or the people running / making it.
As long as such criticism is conforming the forum guidelines that is. That means amongst others no personal, offending, demeaning attacks, no cursing, no spamming, no sharing of contact information, how freely available that may be elsewhere.
Most of what we moderate is reported to us via flags by other users. So I don’t see why you call us emperors, we are merely cops.

I’m sorry you don’t seem happy with the campaign, the forum, or its moderators.

2 Likes

My response was to Mario but you stepping in was expected to be honest. You are not acting in capacity of a backer, you are acting on behalf of philips/screeneo, but you work for free. As for your view that your acting as a cop is even worse, I am a customer not criminal that needs to be monitored.

Let me ask you an honest question, did you get your projector yet? Spend a minute or two and put yourself in the customers situation. When would you loose your patience on features not working as they should, products not being delivered?

4 Likes

I may be acting as a moderator, but I do so for the community, which includes Screeneo also. Sometimes I’m busy behind the screens in the staff section trying to get things going for other backers, I signed up to beta test so I can help develop this device and get potential issues and features dealt with, even with possible risk to my own device and safety. I do all of this for myself and all of us backers. Me helping to moderate means Screeneo staff can focus on the stuff that I can’t do.

I think it’s sad that you see cops as only being there to deal with criminals, as you are then short-changing them. In emergencies they’re the ones to help, they keep the peace, they protect the community, they guide you when you’re lost, redirect traffic, etc. That’s the kind of cop I see myself being: one that helps his community.
So you expecting me to become involved I see as a sign that my work here is noted even if perhaps not always welcomed.
I don’t monitor you, I monitor the forum and all that happens on it, so that it will be a place for all to communicate about this projector and campaign.

I did receive the first of my two projectors I backed, not bought. I’m still waiting on the second, but with a contribution ID of 21014 it’s gonna be a while longer.
And believe it or not, I can definitely put myself in the shoes of those who have had to wait for a long time, who got a defective unit, or had other frustrations with this product or campaign.

In april 2019 I backed a campaign for some earbuds by a “startup”, where the communication went silent in October 2019, 6 months after backing and 4 months after the initially proposed shipping date. No response to emails or anything, I considered my money lost. Then in March this year, I got a tracking label out of the blue. It took 2,5 weeks before it all of a sudden landed at my house, as the tracking never changed from “electronic label has been created” state. The sound quality was subpar, the noise cancellation feature only served as an echo and feedback loop generator, and within 10 days one earbud stopped pairing up and is now useless. Sending the units back for repairs would cost me too much, and there wouldn’t be a real improvement on the quality issues, as I’ve read since that many other backers are facing the same issues.

So yes, having been there myself I know how it feels and how frustrating this all can get. But no amount of frustration warrants being impolite, personally attacking, cursing or otherwise offensive behavior, and that’s some of what we moderators are here to watch out for.

I’ve been critical of certain aspects of this campaign myself, you can search my posts for those criticisms. But I (try to) remain polite and not personal, and decided to help fix some things by stepping up and helping out, like by creating and curating a summary thread of all the news so nobody has to hunt down information but instead can find it in one convenient spot. I don’t do that for Screeneo’s sake, but as a way of helping all of those looking for information who don’t have the time or patience to look all over for it. Helping the community helps me keep my investment in this device I backed alive by having a well liked, further developed piece of kit, which won’t happen if the campaign flops or the community suffers. That’s why I do what I do around here.

Thank you for your time in engaging with me and your show of support to Mario, I can imagine he felt ganged up on by so many people, it’s good to get another voice of support if you feel that way! :+1:t4:

3 Likes

Hello to all
@samsonite @Simon_Painter thanks for your advices and/or support;

@PhilipsIvo

As I know also you know that to thanks all the moderator’s effort there is a PPM free offered by screeneo; At the beginning it was written really clearly in several messages, i asked to be a moderator too 6 months ago!

I’m sure isn’t not this the motivation but, just let me say that maybe, and i repeat maybe this kind of reward doesn’t help to be objetive. But let’s me be clear, I’m not sayng this is your case!

Honestly I’m sorry but I don’t want to spend my time here to explain to people doesn’t want to understand, @djupsjob do you think is spam or offended?Do you think I’m impolite? I’m sorry for you but still i have just done my job in the community tellig my opinion, I don’t know if is my english level or yours the problem!
@PhilipsSteve thanks for your message, It’s impossible to resume all the problems with the PPM in a few words (and i tryed to do in other posts), I can just say to you If It could be possible to have a refund I will be really happy, but I don’t think is possible.
So as I have to stay unhappy with my PPM you have to stay with an unhappy backer;

@kugiigi thank you for your opinion, I hope you don’have to discover but a broken relationship is quite impossible to restore; try to be married and divorced and after tell me. ;°)

4 Likes

and just to say, now my posts are considered “off topic” in a topic created by myself…
like this one:

Hello, can someone tell me why my message is considerated as a spam? no product placement, just my opinion on the projector:
I started loving the PPM, now i almost hate it :frowning:
i was waiting a wonderfull object and after a while it arrived at home, so excited! I was using it every day, but after 6 months of, software problems, useless or almost useless firmware update, i’m tired.
the OS look like a chinese tablet software, a lot of apps simply doesn’work; some really important apps with quality issues or compatibility problems (i mean, netflix, amazon, kodi, youtube, arte and much, much others) lack of image quality always from OS, no color ajustement from day one we are still waiting for…I means backing is ended from a while but you cannot buy it on retail or on internet, i don’think we will see this projector in stores or on amazon, what this mean in your opinion?
Is true usually on the net you see a lot of negative comments and much less positives but I was positive, i tryed with all myself to be positive, but i lost.
#staysafe!

2 Likes

Just to be clear on how it looks like from my perspective, reading above you had a balanced and friendly Mario expressing disappointment. It doesn’t take long before first moderator (you) say it is spam and report it as such, the other mod is “offended” since he is a software dev. Then when I express sympathy with Mario you feel you HAVE to step in and confront my view as well.

You don’t realize that the only one throwing gasoline at the frustration is you calling it spam. I bet you have not made any similar statement for someone posting a ton about how happy they are about the product.

You made a statement above that the “forum lit up” when Mario started posted. I went through his posts, it looked like a person who reached his conclusion and engaging in different threads. Why not be happy he is an active participant expressing his view? I am sure many other submit more posts per day… or perhaps only mods are allowed to post more than 6 posts.

You sound polite while you point the finger and insinuate that someone else’s behavior should be checked when in reality you fuel frustration.

Don’t worry, this is my last post on this topic but I am sure you want the final word on this.

4 Likes

I’m not trying to pick a fight with you, I’m just trying to keep the forum readable. That is why we (the moderators) try to encourage people to report issues in one thread and continue the discussion there. Posting the same message over and over again in different threads is counter-productive, and will only annoy people who are trying their best to help you. And no, I’m not saying that you are impolite per se, but some of your messages did come across as such. I definitely encourage you to share your opinions and experiences with the PPM, that’s why this forum is here in the first place.

As for your issues with the PPM, I’m really sorry to hear that you dislike the projector so much. You seem to have given up on it, but I would still encourage you to specify in more detail what the problems are. As we have seen, quite a lot of problems are being fixed in firmware updates. Maybe fixes to some of your biggest issues are just around the corner? And if those fixes are still not in the pipeline, giving detailed feedback about your problems definitely helps the developers to fix them.

2 Likes

@djupsjob just let me say that someone still hide my comment in this thread created exactly for those messages…
so as I can appreciate your gentle way to give answers I’m sorry to see that is in direct contrast with this hiding situation.

and still

Can‘t you return the PPM and getting (most of) your money back?

1 Like

hello @kai, no screeneo doesn’t give any refund

hello @PhilipsEngineering,
you can split all the discussions if this will help to be easy to read!

thanks for your explaination even if in my humble opinion not so usefull, i’m quite used how posts are banned, and let me say that moderators can (as all other users) flag a post and a group of mod can definitively do that a lot…

Just to clarify something, as I think part of this politeness issue relates back to a post I made in some firmware discussion thread. I’m not a mod, but I did find @mario 's comment there a bit snarky (though it wasn’t nearly as problematic/impolite as other things I’ve seen on this forum). As I found it unfair to the relevant Philips engineer/programmer it was directed at, I commented in a similarly flippant manner. It may be that @mario wasn’t aware of the way his original contribution came across due to the language barrier, in that case I’m sorry for coming across a bit harsher than necessary! (Although it’s interesting that my completely parallel reply was recognised as being snarky then.)

In general, I think it won’t work to paint this in terms of “contributors” vs “moderators”, first because as @PhilipsIvo has pointed out, the mods are contributors as well and second because the “contributors” group is much less homogeneous in their views on the various issues coming up here than you seem to imply. (I don’t know if the title of the thread is actually from you, so I’m not mainly referring to that, but rather to the first post in this thread here where you propose this contributor vs mod contrast.)

2 Likes

thanks for your message @franzli,

I don’t know what snarkly mean, but let’s say that my answer was no so gentle, even if, I haven,t the right to manifest my disappointment in a straightforward way? I mean i haven’t used terms such “liar” or some other offensive things!!!

Ok you’re not a moderator, are you tryng to be one? because you seems to me quite aware of moderators opinions in this forum!

at least but not last I’m agree with you splitting several messages in this tread was an error, and after a long list of banned posts I can say it seems to me another way to hyde unplaisant opinions.
and i dislike to say that I never imagined to feel myself like a troll or a complot fanatic, but after all this I’m sorry to say this stupid silencing is frustrating!
my best
Mario

1 Like

Yes, I think you got the idea of “snarky” right :wink: As I said, your comment wasn’t bad or offensive as other people’s comments elsewhere, that’s why I wouldn’t make a huge deal out of it. I just found it the tone a bit unfair to the Screeneo employee, who I felt had actually answered those questions without being evasive or anything, so I took the freedom to comment, that’s all. If people are free to voice their unhappiness, which is fair enough, I think I should be free to comment if I find some comments unnecessarily unfriendly and do not agree with the sentiment, because if all such comments go without contradiction, this projects an illusion that this block mentality “us poor backers” against “them evil moderators” (or “them evil screeneo scammers”) is actually the reality.

No, I’m not trying to be a moderator. Probably, I’m already investing more time here than I should, but I’m curious about news about how things are progressing :wink:
But as I am actually hoping for this forum to provide a productive plattform for people interested in the PPM, I’m a bit annoyed at this being undermined by people trying to frame their own disappointment/annoyance/… (to which they are entitled) as some sort of battle between “the wronged contributors” and “the evil moderators doing Screeneo’s bidding”, as a) I don’t think that’s true and b) I think that makes the atmosphere here quite toxic (again, not necessarily aiming at your comments in particular with this), reducing the chance of this being/becoming a useful plattform.
So if you want consider me a concerned contributor.

The final part of your message is probably addressed at a different “you”, as I haven’t been involved in moving/splitting messages. So far I can still see most of your comments (apart from a few probably), so it doesn’t seem like you were silenced. I think tidying up some of the threads was probably helpful for their coherence though. And please don’t take me wrong as wanting to dismiss your concerns, I think it’s just much more helpful for everyone involved if you try to formulate them as specificially as possible (as you have done in the other thread), and ideally separate technical issues from criticism of the running of the forum (or the campaign), as far as possible. I get the impression that that was the idea behind the splitting off of some of the comments now collected here.

2 Likes

Hello again,
I think like you, this is not a place to be toxic, no place is good to be.
sadly as i told i don’t know how many times now, few people (yes, they are moderators, but doesn’t mean all moderators are like this) tryed to hide my opinions and sayng i was littering or spamming. I cannot be happy with this.

Yep wasn’t a reply directly to you, sorry of that sometimes is difficult to follow everithing!
and about silencing just take a look of how many of my latest posts (and I’m a polite guy as you can see) are banned simply here

I would like to say sorry to anyone came across this treadh, it was splitted 3 times by others;

a lot of messages are now lost or hidden, Impossible to understand anything! Now It seems just a bunch of messages from people not so happy.

I hope I’m wrong but It seems to me just a way to keep quiet the place at any costs, doesn’t matter if in this way you hide a lot of posts or you’re acting a little bit, not so much, but just a little bit as a censor.

anyway, I’m quitting this forum, I really don’t like to have to “fight” in order to say something, I’m a really peacefull guy, even if here in this topic now i look like a troll.

my very best to all

1 Like

Don’t worry, the same happened to me. This is my first time back on the forum in months. They are all just snow flakes and trying to cover up how much the product sucks.