Hey, I’m glad there’s finally someone else on this soapbox. As you can see in this thread, I’ve been saying this and asking for changes for four months. I just said to my girlfriend a minute ago that if more PPX users had another projector to compare it to, they wouldn’t accept it as it is right now. It looks that flat. This isn’t subjective, it’s measurable, the gamma is way too low.
It’s a shame everything went dead here the way it did. Nothing ever came off any of this. Patience was somewhere a few months ago, now it’s obvious no one’s working on anything related.
This proves comparison breaks happiness
I don’t have anything to compare to but I agree that if people sees the image quality is not good enough then something has to be done if possible.
But let’s not get too hasty here, as marketed the PPM IS a HDR10 projector after all. All those beautiful colors and the wide dynamic range are somewhere in there! If we just close our eyes and open our minds.
I actually didn’t need a comparison, nor was I ever happy with the way the image looked. I saw it with the naked eye, right away. The measurements just confirmed it. The PPX isn’t worse than another projector, it is measurably way off any of the reference standards for video gamma. The comparison only makes it more obvious.
I was happy to wait for this to be addressed. Now I’m worried that it won’t be, and that would be crushing. People will put this down to bad contrast, which it isn’t. This is entirely fixable, as is the unnecessary sharpening on external input.
This would be a great performer if these were fixed. You can work around a cumbersome UX, but not around flaws like this.
So what needs to happen according to you? And I don’t mean “Philips should fix it” but where do the fixes need to be done? Is it software, settings, or hardware? Would just getting “proper” settings for the color, brightness and contrast settings be enough?
I’m not a connaisseur nor expert in this field, but if you can tell me exactly what you’d want, I’ll take it to the engineering team and campaign for these changes.
Kind of what I meant. But also being able to adjust the RGB value while watching a movie for example. It’s a nightmare to have to go exit a program to the home screen to adjust colour values. I watch a lot of IPTV and not every stream is perfect. So it would be good to turn down the brightness or take some reds out for example.
Hello,
Honestly I’m quite surprised reading posts like this; from the beginning the PPM showed some problems giving good images, and we are waiting a way to adjust colors, sharpness etc as it was done to “passion home cinéma” for his blog review… months ago, maybe 8?
We really need to talk again about what should to be done? After all this time?
Personally i lost any trust in people like Ivo, I’m Sorry, not because Ivo isn’t a good guy but just because they feel the obligation to give answers to questions where is not competent at all.
At the beginning i was really involved on this forum tryng to give help to others and to Philips in order to ameliorate the PPM, now my suggestion is to take it easy and use the PPM as it Is without hoping a big improvement!
if the improvement will arrive i’ll take It like a lottery gift!
Anyway in one year with no more software support will be much more difficult to use all this (new) features!
I’m confused, though. You’re asking this in the thread that contains all the information you’re asking for from months ago. And not “Philips should fix it” style, but plenty of specific data. You even responded at the time. Where’s Prashant? I was talking to him about this in PM and he disappeared.
You say you’re not a connoisseur, so I’m not sure how specific you need me to be in addition to the info already here. It’s two things:
Sharpness control doesn’t work for external sources (HDMI etc.)
Gamma is way too low (measured around 1.6, same as the old passionhc review mario mentioned)
I got as far as “it’s not supposed to be that way” with Prashant before he fell off the face of the earth. So it’s not supposed to be this way. We checked and my video chip is up-to-date. Sharpness was supposed to affect both internal and external sources, he told me. It doesn’t, proof is in this thread. Just like gamma isn’t fixed. As to your question: no, brightness and contrast settings don’t change gamma. This needs to be done at the factory end. A gamma curve describes how brightness changes between black and full white, and it’s baked into the video chip. On the user end, all you ever get is a selection of these preset curves to chose from. I’d settle for one if it was closer to target (2.2 to 2.4). Prashant said it was supposed to be around 2.3, following a bt.1886 curve. It isn’t.
Thanks for anything you can set in motion. I guarantee you everyone would love the changes, even if they can’t put their finger on what about the current image doesn’t wow them. Several people have mentioned that the image looks flat. That’s what low gamma looks like. Flat and washed out.
Before I was free to talk and tell you all about everything I knew, as I didn’t know much and didn’t have a NDA with Philips Projection. Lately I’m bound by these and can’t say too much of what I know or don’t know.
But this is being worked on, which is how I got the picture I posted above.
The reason I asked for what you wanted, despite all the information being in this thread already, is to get a summarized set of wishes that I can take to the team when I meet them hopefully in a few weeks time. Like I said and you quoted, I’m not an expert in this area. I know what looks good and what doesn’t, but I am not versed in Gamma curves and Color spaces etc. By you giving me the exact wording I can take this to those who better grasp these concepts and can make these changes happen if possible.
I hope you understand where I’m coming from, even if others (Hi Mario!) don’t. For I may not be competent in everything, but I managed to put myself in the position where I can really reach the truly competent ones to try to effect change.
I couldn’t agree more that the image is flat, not punchy, yellowish, etc…
If there is an app to manage colors, why don’t you release it for all users ? We are in a way all a bit beta testers
I have to say that except for Mario kart or Fifa i don’t use it anymore to watch blurays or Netflix. So sad.
I’m surprised to see we are so few to complain about this!
Thanks for your support
Hello @IvoGrijt!
we have spent some time on this community when your name was just Ivo, i think i know exactly where are you from As told I’m not expecting nothing more from PPM, I mean this post started 6 months ago…and isn’t the first time we had discussions on quality images, that is never been at the rdv.
But I have to admit your desire to ameliorate yourself and to understand tech stuff is honorable ! Much less honorable is to be here after all this time at almost the same point. And you Ivo needs some good tech vocabulary in order to explain what to do to ingeneers? Is a joke?
Please someone tell me if I’m wrong but i was thinking screneeo/philips should know what is a flat image, a gamma curve or what are colors…and maybe able to mesure this kind of weird stuff…or Liersi is just the only one? a miracle? a phenomenon?
Hey philips/screneo hire Liersi asap, this guy is a gem!
So I’m sorry but I’m not happy to know that our only hope is your desire in helping us to have a good image; honestly it looks to me a little bit childish or at least naïf.
Or just a way to give another useless answers?
Hi
We are now in December and still no color management improvement;
Whatever I do with public set up I have access, skins still looks like wax, a bit yellow or green, pick the one you prefer.
I read about an app that was supposed to be released buut nothing so far in sight, or did I missed something?
Besides, i agree with the person that said the image looks flat. Particularly for indoor scenes. Outside scenes look a bit better
What could we do to be heared ?
Luckily as a backer I didn’t pay the public price, because 800€ for such an image result would have brought me to a nervous breakdown
Please adjust the image to your liking by going to Settings > Image. You can find brightness, contrast, saturation, sharpness controls.
This product does not support advanced colour management.
There is a special app available only to beta testers that lets you directly modify the red/green/blue LED power. This will not be released publicly because it makes direct changes to the hardware, making it possible to run the product outside safe limits.
The special app also has a “looks” feature which is a set of 10-20 adjustments to the white balance affecting both internal and external video. This feature is planned to be released publicly in the near future. For the vast majority of use-cases, one of the looks will be satisfactory to you. It can also act as a wall colour correction. It’s also very consumer-friendly, requiring you to only flip between the looks and pick the one you prefer.
Hope this puts at ease some of the questions & concerns regarding colour calibration.
I am happy to read news about the color calibration tool, but much less when it comes with its content.
You were not be able to modify this application to prevent the user from setting options that run the product outside safe limits ?
I mean, the default calibration is not ideal and work has been done (with probe) by the French tester from “passionhomecinema”, wouldn’t be possible to set his parameters as default at least ?
Mode : Normal
Brightness : 42%
Contrast : 48%
Test image : Z White 1%%
RGB
R : 709
G : 447
B : 381
Salut William
I stopped banging my head against the wall : this is not their priority it seems And I don’t see what can make them changed their minds. I’m giving negative comments on social media when I read their advertising about the incredible colours And astonishing image … LOL ! If you like yellow wax skins this is incredible
We both know the answer regarding security is pure BS com but I have the feeling we are fighting against windmills
Hello,
I’m working in color grading, and I was looking for a thread to discuss about Picopix Max Calibration.
Between us, it’s actually a crap. I was a user of the Picopix Pro (which has a good colorimetry) to go to Picopix Max, and it’s a jump backward.
I’m using Picopix Max through HDMI cause there is huge differences between HDMI, VLC, MX Player. With VLC I think the huge is problem is that it’s Data Level and not Video Level that is setting up…
So I’m using PicoPix Max with a Chromecast and my white are clipped at 85 / 90% percent of the signal same at 1 percent of Contrast. Why are you Clipping the signal???
The better parameter for me is Brightness 48%, Contrast 30%, Saturation 42%, Sharpness 1% (Really crap parameters)
As other people said, the green and the Yellow at a moment are oversaturated. It doesn’t serve to anything to have the wider color gammut cause we don’t use it in 99,9% of the picture but it’s better to minimise it and have good color and good skintone.
Moreover we have to change the gamma curve, it explodes at a moment in the white without reason …(despite we are losing somme white informations)
! Much less honorable is to be here after all this time at almost the same point. And you Ivo needs some good tech vocabulary in order to explain what to do to ingeneers? Is a joke?
