PPM Power requirement

Does anyone know how much power the PPM is pulling via the USB-C?

I have a couple of Bluetooth Speakers (inc Beolit 15) which can power some devices via USB-A output, but I am guessing this won’t be enough for the PPM. Also wondering about high output power bank battery as an alternative to keep it going outdoor for more than the 2-3 hours I am expecting.

Thanks in advance

Hi, the Phillips team said a while back you should have a 65w power-bank to be able to play the PPM directly from the power-bank. Otherwise it will just be charging the internal battery but if the PPM is out of juice, you won’t be able to use only the external source to power it.

By the way, there is an export of all comments from IGG, and answers from Philips. Check it out here: Comments: Philips PicoPix Max - 1080p Full HD Pico Projector | Indiegogo

Cheers,

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Thanks Velislav

So I am guessing that a 30W power bank might add another hours of playback time to a full charged PPM if plugged in while using. But then, once the PPM max battery is drained - all over.

Certainly seems like a USB-A output from the Bluetooth speaker isn’t going to make much difference

If we can get a specification of exactly what criteria the PPM wants fulfilled during the PD power contract negotiation it would be a lot easier to explain why certain PD sources fails to power the PPM. I hope the PD firmware is upgradeable in the PPM so these incompatibilities can be remedied. I fully understand that the PPM isn’t getting PD right the first time around, it’s a tricky standard (and lots of non-compliant PD Sources).

So I’m still a bit confused. I have a 38W, 10,000mAh powerbank. I understand it won’t power the PPM directly, but if I start with the PPM fully charged, can it slowly top-up the battery as it’s being used, extending the run time from the expected 3hrs to say 4hrs or 5hrs?

Or does the PPM have to be powered off to charge from a powerbank?
Or does the PPM require a MINIMUM 65W powerbank to charge?

Thankful for any clarification.

I’ve asked this question twice in Indiegogo comments few months ago.
At the first one, Philips answered “we must check”.
At the second one, no response.

@PhilipsEngineering :
Any tech answer, now ?
Thanks.

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That sounds like a powerbank that does not have any USB-C PD ports? If I have understood it correctly the PPM will not work with anything but a USB-C PD source capable of supplying 15V at a minimum of 2.5A (which is 37.5W). It will not charge (not even super slow) from a regular old USB-A to USB-C cable.

You understood correct. :wink:

Then I would say “don’t get your hopes up getting the PPM to charge from it and you won’t be disappointed” :slight_smile:

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@LLG, the ‘battery bypass’ was a highly requested feature during the campaign. The projector uses up power supply itself first. Only surplus power is used to charge the battery. So if you plug in a 38W power supply, it’s barely enough to run the projector at all (need around 45-55W in normal mode), it won’t be able to charge the battery.

You may be able to charge it slowly if you plug in while the projector is off.

Also note that the power bank must be USB-C PD as @wernerj said. Power banks that only have USB-A ports will not work, they can’t supply enough power.

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Thanks @PhilipsEngineering for your answer :+1: (I think I missed it when you wrote it).

As said in another thread, I backed this Powerbank in Indiegogo, named Flash :

Their specs for Flash are :
100W USB-C Power Delivery 3.0 Output: 5V/3A, 9V/3A, 12V/3A, 15V/3A, 20V/3A, 20V/5A

while specs on the PPM charger are :
PD Output : 5V/3A, 9V/3A, 12V/3A, 15V/4A, 20V/3.25A.
Power output 65W

I asked them if their Flash powerbank will be able to handle the PPM properly (recognized by it, power it when on, charge it when off) and they answered “yes as Flash will have full PPS(*) that can support up to 21V”.

@PhilipsEngineering, with these elements do you consider that this powerbank will do the job ?

(*) For understanding what is PPS (which stands for Programmable Power Supply), explanations here :

The zendur supertank works. It has 100w output and will fully recharge the ppm once with about 20% left in reserve

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It should be able to charge the projector when powered off, but might struggle during operation. Because the PPM needs 4A@15V, with only 3A there might not be enough power. But in eco mode should be OK and probably also on normal mode.

Thanks @PhilipsEngineering for your explanations, but I still doesn’t understand something…

When you say “Because the PPM needs 4A@15V, with only 3A there might not be enough power.”, I understand “PPM needs 60W (4x15) to be full powered” and it’s clear that 45W (3x15) is a little bit short.
But the Flash powerbank has the capability to deliver also 60W (20V/3A) and even 100W (20V/5A) !
Therefore why PPM would not be able to use the full power of these 60W or 100W ?
Is there currently a limitation at 15V ?
If yes, as said by @wernerj previously in this thread, will it be possible to tweak PD firmware of the PPM in order to accept over 15V ?

Yep it looks like so.

I’ve asked this to the HW team, still waiting for reply as engineers are not all back to Shenzhen. Will update asap.

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Yes, thank you to look into this with HW (and maybe SW) teams, because the current specifications (15V/4A) seems to be really uncommon, at least for powerbank.
To be as compliant as possible with what is on the market, a PD firmware upgrade would be great !

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It is an uncommon mode, but not completely unheard of. From a cabling perspective it would be a lot better to run at 20V/3A as most power banks and adapters max out at 3A (also any non e-marked cable will also limit current to 3A, or at least they should).

We’ll see when the HW engineers are back, I’m also very interested in finding out how this will unfold (I’m still waiting for the second EU wave of deliveries so I can’t take a look for myself just yet)

Managed to reach the HW engineer and I have a definitive answer now.

PicoPix Max only accepts 15V.

Due to thermal and efficiency concerns at this size, some parts inside have a max limit of 15V. 20V parts could not be used.

PD optionally allows 15V @ 4A instead of 3A, if local optimisation is of value. Our engineer believes PPM is the perfect candidate for ‘local optimisation’ as 15V4A has better thermal+efficiency characteristics than 20V3A.

The supplied power adapter supports this optional 4A output at 15V so it can run the projector at full brightness and even charge a bit. But it seems the majority of 3rd party PD adapters only support the minimum requirement, which is 3A. That’s why these adapters will charge the PicoPix when off, but will probably struggle during usage in Presentation mode.

If you can find a PD charger that does output 4 amp, that’ll be a better fit. But otherwise 15V at 3A will charge the projector when off, and should power the projector fine at eco and likely also normal mode.

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Thanks for the honest response, even if the content doesn’t really enjoy me…

@mayobren said in another thread that he managed to charge PPM with 2 of his powebanks.
For the most common of them (the Zendure SuperTank), it would be useful to know, for each or the 3 projection modes, if :

  • The powerbank powers the PPM during projection AND charge the PPM battery.
  • The powerbank only powers the PPM during projection AND can’t manage to charge the PPM battery.
  • The powerbank can’t even manage to power the PPM during projection AND can’t manage to charge the PPM battery.

@trappm explained that he found a battery monitor in Aptoide store :


I think this soft could give the status.

Maybe @mayobren can do these tests for us :wink: ?

That makes some sense. I guess the battery charger IC is one of the 16 or 18V types then. Slightly cheaper than the 22V versions. Not sure about the efficiencies when we’re talking a device of this size, but efficiency in terms of cost is of course one important factor.

But there are apparently still incompatibilities where the PPM refuses to negotiate a 15V/3A contract with the Apple chargers for instance, so not all 15V/3A capable adapters seems to work.